It's RAJARS day today (August 1) for the broadcasting sector, so here's a chance to read our big interview with BBC Radio 2's team from August 2023.
Next month, BBC Radio 2 In The Park returns for the first time since 2019, as Kylie Minogue and Tears For Fears lead a star-studded line-up. After a turbulent period, it’s set to be a celebration of the station’s dominance over UK radio. Here, Music Week gathers bosses Helen Thomas and Jeff Smith, plus star DJs Jo Whiley and Trevor Nelson, to find out why the industry couldn’t do without Radio 2...
WORDS: JAMES HANLEY PHOTOS: SARAH JEYNES
Jo Whiley is doing her best to reunite the Gallagher brothers. Noel has been a regular guest on the DJ’s BBC Radio 2 show through the years, while Liam recently joined her on-air as a co-host.
“Having Liam on the show and discussing Noel with him, and then having Noel on the show and discussing Liam with him was very insightful,” Whiley tells Music Week. “I said, ‘Why don’t you just pick up the phone and call Noel?’ And Liam was like, ‘Well, have you got his number?’ And I said, ‘Yeah, do you want to call him?’ He didn’t do it, but he reacted quite emotionally. That was a moment.”
The co-host slot has been a welcome addition to Whiley’s Monday to Thursday output, alongside established staples such as Shiny Happy Playlist and Sofa Sessions. The 58-year-old took the well-trodden path to the nation’s favourite station from Radio 1 in 2011.
“A lot of us say this, but Radio 1 feels like being at school or sixth form, and growing up with all your mates, and moving on to Radio 2 feels like going to uni,” she smiles. “And I don’t want to leave uni for quite a long time.”
To continue that analogy, Radio 2 head of station Helen Thomas and longstanding head of music Jeff Smith have shown themselves to be chancellors of distinction. Radio 2 was still top of the class in the RAJAR results for the first three months of 2023, with its ratings down just 0.8% year-on-year to 14.46 million and up 1.2% on the prior quarter.
It seems an opportune time, then, for Music Week to check in with the team over Zoom – especially with the imminent return of Radio 2 In The Park for the first time since 2019. Taking place in Leicester’s Victoria Park from September 16-17 and headlined by Kylie Minogue and Tears For Fears, the expanded event will be the station’s biggest ever gathering held outside London.
“All roads lead to Leicester right now, that is absolutely where our focus is,” says Thomas. “It’s our flagship live music event, so we can’t wait. This is like year one for us really, because we got so close with Leeds last year, which would have been our first two-day event.”
The 2022 show was cancelled following the death of the Queen.
“It couldn’t be more important because it’s a chance for us to see our listeners face to face and for all our presenters to come together,” Thomas continues. “It’s all available on iPlayer, BBC Sounds and, of course, on Radio 2 as well, so it’s a hugely significant live music moment for us.”
Jeff Smith, too, foresees a landmark moment.
“We achieved an awful lot with our festival in a day, so it’s brilliant to be able to have two days and also take it around the UK,” suggests Smith. “We saw with Glastonbury and the response to Elton that there is such an appetite for live music, and I think we’re going to see that again.”
Bananarama, Texas, James Blunt, Deacon Blue, Beverley Knight, Busted, Soft Cell, Pretenders, Shalamar, Rick Astley, Jessie Ware, Lemar, Sam Ryder and Simply Red are also on the bill, with all of the 70,000 tickets available selling out in under eight hours.
“No other radio station could put that bill on, because it is an authentic reflection of what we do at Radio 2,” says Thomas. “To have everyone from Tears For Fears to Jessie Ware, who has also presented on Radio 2, is such a brilliant statement of our music policy made real.”
Thomas took up the reins in 2020, succeeding Lewis Carnie, whereas radio veteran Smith has held his title since joining the Beeb from Napster in 2007. The pair are highly complimentary of each other’s qualities.
“Jeff is amazing,” says Thomas. “I genuinely feel blessed to have someone of his experience and wisdom. He’s excellent counsel for me. We’ve got an amazing team at Radio 2 and when you’ve got people who share the vision, you can achieve a lot – and we have. We’ve been through so much since I got this job: we’ve had two royal deaths and a pandemic, and that’s just for starters.”
“I’ve never worked with a better boss,” beams Smith. “We get on so well because we understand each other perfectly. To Helen’s credit, she’s brought this station together more than I’ve ever known it.”
Presenter Trevor Nelson, who has hosted Rhythm Nation on the station since 2016, believes the numbers speak for themselves.
“The audience figures tell you why the industry needs Radio 2,” he laughs. “I think we’ve offered something that clearly no one else has. Number one, we just offer that comfort. In lockdown, the audience reacted to all these known voices they’d trusted every year, so there is that assurance.”
Nelson suggests Radio 2’s balance of entertainment and music is something few of its peers can match.
“We have our specialists and we have our massive mainstream personalities, and it’s that balance that makes it,” he says. “The number one word I always get from listeners is – and it’s so cheesy – is friendship. There’s that companionship and familiarity in a changing world, without it being ‘Hitsville USA.’”
Nelson, who appeared on stage with Thomas to collect the Radio Station honour at the 2021 Music Week Awards, says new music is among his top priorities.
“I don’t stick to the tried and trusted all the time,” he says. “And I’m trying to drive people who might have slightly musically checked out to stream music, make their own playlists and have a bit more interest in new music, as well as rediscovering old music.”
Nelson has upped his workload further still of late, delving into his interview archive for the Trevor Nelson’s Divas series on BBC Sounds, hosting an orchestral reimagining of Bob Marley’s greatest hits from Birmingham Town Hall and presenting a one-off concert at the Royal Albert Hall to mark the 75th anniversary of Windrush. He is also curating Trevor Nelson’s Soul Christmas at the London venue this December. As one of the few diverse voices on Radio 2, he is willing and able to utilise his platform to make a difference.
“I feel a huge responsibility,” he says. “I do four shows a week on Radio 2 and they let me playlist my own show, which is brilliant for musical diversity. My old cohort [DJ] Spoony joined recently; he started depping for me and then they gave him a show. And Angela Griffin has a late night show, so there are diverse voices. I’m not standing here saying we 100% need more, the audience that are listening to the station reflect the DJs on the station. But bit by bit, over the years to come, I expect that to change and I want it to.”
Nelson also says that he can help drive the shift.
“The fact that I’m Black and am on the biggest station is great for my culture, because it proves that if someone else comes along, there isn’t a perception that they can’t be successful on Radio 2,” he says. “So I do take the responsibility. It’s a question I would have avoided years ago, because I always wanted to be judged on merit, not the colour of my skin, but I accept the challenge at Radio 2 and so far, so good. I’ve got nothing but love for the audience.”
Of course, BBC Radio 2 is seeking to impact the industry in other ways.
Chief among its innovations is the Piano Room, which has been a hit with listeners since launching in January 2022. The format sees each artist perform three tracks – a new song, one of their well-known tracks and a classic cover accompanied by an orchestra – during the morning show and has welcomed acts such as U2’s Bono & The Edge, Depeche Mode and Cat Burns.
In February, Piano Room Month featured Stormzy, Pink, Sugababes, Suede, Haircut 100 and Jake Shears featuring Neil Tennant of Pet Shop Boys, each of whom performed with the BBC Concert Orchestra live from Maida Vale studios.
“We’ve created an opportunity whereby artists like Pink can expand that whole arrangement with us and deliver a longer piece to TV or iPlayer,” points out Smith. “Clearly, what we’re all about is value for the licence fee payer, but also the music industry and I think the value it can get out of that content is incalculable. And it’s another way of getting new music through to daytime.”
Smith considers R2’s relationship with record labels to be “brilliant”, but is keen to encourage even closer cooperation.
“I’d say to the music industry, talk to me more about what we can do with the Piano Room to expose your artist’s music to a wider audience than ever before with the sheer scale and scope that we can offer,” he says. “Pink was a great example of that, but also Depeche Mode, who had never done anything with an orchestra before. I was talking to their manager and he was saying it’s one of the best things they’ve done for decades. And they did a million views on each of those tracks on YouTube.”
Blur, meanwhile, recently became the latest big name act to star in BBC Radio 2 In Concert, performing an exclusive show in front of a small audience of listeners at BBC Radio Theatre in July.
While Smith believes the extent to which radio can claim credit for breaking acts in 2023 is a matter of opinion, he is convinced it remains a vital piece of the jigsaw.
“I’m not too sure it necessarily begins within mainstream daytime radio,” he muses. “Nowadays, all sorts of people could claim they’ve given birth to these hits. But if you want to be successful, ultimately, I believe you’ve got to be on the radio. That is a level you have to attain and it has to be the ambition for many artists, even now. If you want to be successful why wouldn’t you want to be on the biggest radio station in the UK? The biggest radio station in Europe? It’s not going to work for everybody and not all artists are going to work for us, but radio is still so important to breaking new music.”
Smith accepts that the advent of streaming and platforms such as YouTube and TikTok have impacted the medium – just not in the way many would assume. He cites the resurgence of Kate Bush’s 1985 classic Running Up That Hill on the back of featuring in Netflix’s Stranger Things to flesh out his point.
“Generations are coming together through consumption of music and it’s happenstance that we now find ourselves in a world where that is celebrated,” he surmises. “People aren’t as tribal now. They love a broad range of music and Radio 2, as a one-stop shop, is a great place to find that.”
Smith says that Radio 2 stands apart due to its “full-service nature”.
“If one of the platforms we just talked about started to try to be something like Radio 2 that would be interesting, that would be a threat. I’m not arrogant enough to say there’s not competition out there, but those are very much on-demand experiences.”
Sharing her delight at the statistic that one in four adults who listen to UK radio are listening to Radio 2, Thomas points to the open-mindedness of the station’s audience.
“Whatever their age, they don’t just want to listen to the music of their youth, they also want to hear what their kids or grandkids are listening to,” she insists. “We are a proud station aimed at everyone over the age of 35, and that feeds through every aspect of our schedule. There is no other radio station like it on the planet and I want it to continue to tower above all others.”
Even so, the past 12 months have not been without their challenges. Vernon Kay became the new host of the mid-morning show after Ken Bruce, who presented the slot for more than three decades, departed for Bauer Audio UK’s Greatest Hits Radio. Bruce, who had also hosted Radio 2’s Eurovision coverage since 1988, could claim to be the UK’s most popular DJ based on RAJAR figures released in February, with 8.2 million listeners.
“Ken is an amazing broadcaster, who was here at the BBC for 45 years and 31 years on mid-mornings, and he chose to leave,” says Thomas. “It wasn’t a change that I was looking to make, but he had an offer and he decided to go.”
The corporation received criticism from longtime fans after Bruce said it had brought forward the date of his last show by a few weeks (“I had intended fulfilling my contract until the end of March but the BBC has decided it wants me to leave earlier,” he said). A BBC spokesperson said it was always known that Bruce was leaving in March, adding that returning to Wogan House for a week after a month of broadcasting the Piano Room sessions at Maida Vale “provided a natural break”.
Regardless, Thomas insists there are no hard feelings.
“We just wish him the best of luck,” she says. “I saw him at the ARIAS earlier this year and he was really happy. He was thrilled. And of course, from our perspective, whenever somebody moves on, it opens up an opportunity for someone else. I was so thrilled to be able to bring Vernon in, because Vernon was somebody who had been deputising right across the network for a couple of years. We could see how much the audience loved him and it isn’t hard to see why. He’s really warm, funny, relatable and he loves his music.”
The past few years have seen something of a changing of a guard at the station, with the departure of presenters including Simon Mayo and Vanessa Feltz, while Steve Wright left his weekday show last year after more than two decades. New faces have included Radio 1’s Scott Mills, who joined last year.
Thomas says she is seeking to appeal to the broadest possible audience and is particularly proud of the current crop.
“The beauty of Radio 2 is that people really want to work here,” she says. “I spend a lot of my time saying no to people who are like, ‘I would love to be part of this incredible squad of presenters who get to do the most amazing things, with amazing artists, on the biggest platform.’ So I would say that change is an inevitability. But I look at the line-up and, with star presenters in every single slot right across the day, I couldn’t be happier.”
One of the stars, Jo Whiley, speaks warmly of the atmosphere behind-the-scenes.
“It’s different personalities,” she says. “You’ve got the wise generation like Bob [Harris] and Tony [Blackburn], then newcomers like Scott and Vernon. Everyone has their role, it really is like a family.”
Whiley suffered a chastening experience when her ill-fated switch to co-hosting drivetime with Simon Mayo in 2018 attracted high levels of audience criticism.
“When a new DJ takes over a show it takes some getting used to, so those people who absolutely loved the drivetime show with Simon were really upset and sad that it had changed,” she told Music Week in 2019.
Rebounding from the disappointment since returning to the evening slot, Whiley feels very much at home.
“I think we’ve got a strong connection with our listeners,” she says. “It’s comforting hearing the same voice opening up, telling their stories and sharing their lives. Someone got in touch with us [at the end of June] and said that her husband passed away at Glastonbury and would I play a song for him. I did, of course, and it was such a leveller to think we were all celebrating Glastonbury, and then she lost the love of her life. We played the song and she messaged me on social media over the weekend to say thank you and said what it meant to her. It gives me goosebumps, but that’s a role that we have doing radio. We’re there for people and we help them through difficult times.”
Helen Thomas views the passion of the station’s listenership as an overwhelming positive.
“The listeners of Radio 2 love the station and they tell us what they think, and I value that,” she says. “I would rather have that relationship with our audience because they’re grown-ups as well. I’ve been doing this a long time and Jeff has been doing it even longer, and you know in your gut if something sounds right. You feel it, you can hear it and you can see the response from the listeners.”
As she looks ahead, Thomas says that she wants to keep pushing boundaries.
“Post-Radio 2 In The Park, where are we going next year? Who are we going to get on the bill?” she says. “Hilariously, I was asking Jeff who we’d got for the Piano Room next February, literally the day after selling out 70,000 tickets for Leicester, because it never stops. So I feel like the future is going to be all right.”
Before we leave Thomas and her team to it, we ask whether, amidst all the positivity, there is anything that keeps her awake at night.
“Well, to be honest with you, everything,” she answers. “I’m a terribly light sleeper!”
